Kevin said, "I think it's just a guy thing you're not entirely getting, Candy. Aden said stuff to swim against the tide and some guys respond with exaggerated attacks. He insulted Shakespeare and claimed Milton was better, for god's sake. How could I let that pass, I ask you? Back and forth is what guys do. Doesn't mean we couldn't all sit down to a brewski together. Look at President Barry the Cambridge Cop and the Harvard Professor. Classic. It's just practice."
I do get that it's a guy thing. I've read Iron John. I understand when David Mamet says "Women have, in men's minds, such a low place on the social ladder ... that it's useless to define yourself in terms of a woman. What men need is men's approval."
I appreciate you saying it's a guy thing Kevin, and I understand that male bonding and male mutual approval is incredibly important to a lot of people. I respect male bonding and female bonding and various activities that often need dialogue in order to prevent misunderstandings between ocial constructs. But...I reject the idea that we need to maintain some kind of gendered space or gender sanctioned or segregated behaviours here at this web site bookclub for Cormac McCarthy. I appreciate that since it's a "guy thing" you accept that you and Aden, or Aden and Rick, or Aden and some other guy are "back and forth is what guys do". Well, in my world women do it too. I don't have any particular aim to worry about being one of the guys or not. I send it back and forth with the best of them, regardless of whether I am one of the guys or not. And I've drank plenty of beer with the same people I've sent it back and forth with.
Which is my original point. Why are you suggesting I ignore Aden's posts if I don't like what he says? You have confirmed that it's because you believe it's a guy thing to go back and forth...therefore I should just ignore Aden and not go "back and forth" with him because it's a "guy thing".
You say I should ignore a post I don't like or such because it's "just the internet". I get that, I realize for a lot of people the internet is different than other social arenas. I am sure it is, for some people... but for me it's not quite lke that...you defend your position by saying you could have a brewski with these "guys" here at the forum after going "back and forth". Well so could I. I have in fact. I've made friends and lost friends at this "internet". I've drank brewski's with internet relationships. Gee...just like a guy. I've had brewski's with guys I've had knock down discussions with here at this very forum and other "internet" sites. I agree that it's unwise to take bookclub discussions too seriously...or to take a difference of opinion as a reason to not enjoy a beer with a fellow human. I do get that. More than get it, I live it Kevin. Being on the internet isn't an excuse for me not to take human contact seriously or with pleasure or with dissonance. Being on the internet isn't an anonymous behaviour for many of us.
I'm all for the guy thing...but I reject your idea that in this bookclub and internet web site I should ignore posts I don't agree with but the guys don't have to. Because you say "back and forth thats what guys do". I appreciate you being honest with your feelings about gendered space. I appreciate you being honest with your feelings about guys going back and forth versus the behaviour of a woman also going back and forth. I suggest that you re-evaluate your opinion about womens behaviour here at the forum.
And besides, how would I know if you were a male or female and in fact, "a guy"? And that your belief that guys go "back and forth" is not rendered more authoritarian to me either way. I reject your definitions and standards of telling me I should ignore Aden's posts, or anyone's posts if instead...I'd rather go "back and forth". Going back and forth has nothing to do with gender.
You say "some guys respond with exaggerated attacks." And why should that exclude me responding "stern"? According to you ...because "it's just a guy thing you're not entirely getting, Candy.". If you have a problem with my gender going "back and forth" I suggest you either mind your own business about how I talk to others here at the forum...or you take up your gender issues regarding who and how I talk to and who I don't with the forum suzerians.
9 comments:
it's just people playing pwnage on the web like everywhere else. if it makes any difference i kind of think of you as a guy. did you post this at the forum? lmao
Wow - been there like you and once again realize what fantasy some men delude themselves with. Climb over them and keep going - you seem to have a great core of realistic minds available to discuss your valuable ideas with. But it is disheartening to realize some men still genderize discussion of ideas. cheers
Muppie
isnt that kind of a genderization itself lol?
Mike, yes I postedit at the McCarthy forum. Sometimes I re-copy my posts or others from there here. I like to see what visitors here have to say about it. I once posted a whole bunch of the reactions of McCarthy going on the Oprah show here.
You can see some of them and responses here:
http://gnosticminx.blogspot.com/2007/04/oprah-winfrey-and-cormac-mccarthy.html
Hey Muppie, wonderful to hear from you. I am okay with people discussing gender and having rigorous comparrisons of the ways we have social constructs...or hormonal differences or similarities. Lets face it, men and women are way more alike than different. When the trend in marathons began in the 1970's we found out that the physical differences in strength and stamina are much smaller between men and women than we used to believe. Women compete at marathon not much differently than men. And the hormonal differences are quite slight. Most gender differences are social construct, or cultural enforcements to divide labour....or control behaviour.
Mike you are right...and the thing is...we all do gender reactions and stereotypes. I spend a lot of time with peope who really like to talk about this stuff and analyse it. A part of the LGBTQIA community (some day I hope we have the whole alphabet...and peopel will be inclusive of each other!) talk a lot about gender...about our preconcepitions. I don't really have an issue about us putting our foot in our mouth or examining these conceptions and pre-conceptions...or margins...it's when we hold them as a means t avoid communication.
If we use gender as a reason to curtail activity or discussion. Sharing our feelings that one sexual orientation, or one gender or intersexuals are "this or that" can be a learning experience IF we talk about it.
Some people think if we acknowledge gender...or acknowledge when we marginalize each other...they take umbrage. Why not use the observations as a stepping stone for discussion? We're all in this together. It isn't a "us or them" thing. It's all of us.
what a gumbo. ll of us indeed. candy i feel that you are one of my kind moreso than a lot of peeps who share my gender/ethnicity/nationality. rock on.
Aw, Mikedelic, right on is right! Hey where the heck are ya? We just went downtown with a bunch of our artwork...down to Lolapolooza to see if we could show some of our art. We sold a painting...and then moved down to a restaurant called "Artist's Cafe and sat there for a bit saying hi to people with our art laid out. It was a lot of fun. Are you in Chicagoland yet? It's crazy hot here...just poured us a couple of coconut rum/orange juices...and sitting out back. Ah...summer!
oh wow cool about lollapalooza. i am in naperville but have to go on a roadtrip today to recover two external hardrives i left in walcott iowa. i dont mind heat but am not fond of humidity lol so i'm taking a lil time to adjust. been getting out in the mornings a bit and that weather i simply love. that's great that you sold a piece.
i am staying with my girlfriend and looking for an apartment. i'm available most of the time as i am perpetually unemployed. let's hang soon! 2014697554
oh and p.s. i remember your cormac oprah stuff i followed it from a lil free internet thing in a kmart in paramus nj
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