Wired 14.11: The Church of the Non-Believers. Interesting article in WIRED about atheism, with famous atheists, Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennet.
I've always found the old battle between the religious and the atheists quite humourous.
I don't care one way or another if God exists or not, I basically feel it's none of my business. When I was initiated into Budhhism a long time ago, the monks and devotees always taught us that the existence of god was a minor issue that the ego is concerned with and it's of not much significance in this lifetime. I rather liked that attitude.
Atheists always seem as intent at converting folks as religious folks...and then religious practitioners forget that they don't own all the big questions. Scientists and atheists also ask why are we here, what is the meaning of life, why is there so much suffering?
It's always been a little sad that either camp seems to maintain a mutual intolerance. And you all know how I feel about intolerance...
Should we outlaw faith because terrorists are fundamentalists in Christianity and Islam and Judaism?
I don't think terrorism has anything to do with faith. In fact, I don't think fundamentalism has anything to do with faith. I think terrorism is born from complete lack of faith and humanity, rather from nihilism.
Is the history of god, bad for us?
I should add that I think we make a mistake when we label our passions and inspirations under categories like faith, religion or sentimentality. Faith should fall under the emotions, and to live without emotions is dangerous. Two small events occured to me this past week. Are they religious? Are they faith?
One, I was watching several hours of a mini-documentary called In Search of Shakespeare. I've already seen it, and I have the hardcover book which I've read. But I was getting my geek on again. Love this program which suggests that Shakespeare was secretly a Catholic during the religious wars of Elizabethan England. Good stuff. Stagg walks in when I am watching, and looks at me worried. I am crying. He asks if I'm okay. I say, "Shakespeare died." Stagg was like, "Um, he died a long time ago." I say, "I know four hundred years ago, but it makes me sad, he just died now."
Then, I was at a church downtown last week for a meeting...I got the times mixed up, and the priest who was working the office that day, called me "spacey" (I'm not making that up, in fact when I left the church he called out "stay spacey" The NERVE!) anyways...Since I missed my meeting, I went into the church. Again Stagg walked in on me meditating in the cathedral and wiping my eyes. I had just seen a woman at a small stature modeled after the Pieta, and she had rubbed Jesus's leg. Yes, his marble leg. And the way she had touched him had moved me to tears. It was so beautiful and powerful.
I'm not only not Christian, I'm not even a religious person. I'm so not religious I don't even believe in being an atheist.
Why do the atheists and the religious fight over the power of myth and the power of emotions when neither party has legislation over such kinds of emotions that I would feel simply catching a woman touching the leg of a marble Jesus?
The religious do not own faith or the Big Questions. They don't own intolerance either.
I wonder if the New Atheism isn't just another opportunity for people to continue to be intolerant?
9 comments:
I think I'm agnostic. I'd like to think there's some'at out there after I shuffle off but it isn't likely. If there is a God/Buddah/Allah/Brian I'll be sharin an understanding with the sod. If he/it/they are there and are all powerful they could give kids a chance and we'd never know therefore he/it/they have to be a bit sadistic if yer ask me. I'm having another drink now....
Isn't it funny - no, I mean odd - that one extreme to the other can still fall under "intolerance." Maybe that is something to say about extremes!
I have seen several different statutes of Pieta, some very touching. For me religion is a very deep emotional experience. That's why I love art so, it is like a deep religious experience for me to experience some works.
"Terrorism is born from complete lack of faith and humanity,..." was an awesome, wise statement, Candy Minx.
Hi Candy!
Faith will never be outlawed because of our need to have it. Terrorists are criminals who twist the meaning of everything including religion. I don't think that I believe in organised religion, yet for so many it works for them and I am no judge of other peoples passions. But I believe in faith and passion, they are good qualities, if not emotions, that raise us beyond instinct and fuel cultures. I have passion for art and other things in life that are touching, sometimed gut wrenching. I have faith that my friends, family and I can handle the things that life throws at us, the good and the bad. As far as jesus is concerned... I hope that he was real but who knows? Science is also a matter to which modern society places heavy emphasis, yet getting past all of the physics and unifying theories leaves just faith.
I grew up in a Catholic country, the daughter of a Protestant mother and an atheist father. No religion or system of belief was ever forced upon me, and I think it's a real privilege.
Likewise, I don't go round telling religious people they are misguided. Many of my friends (one of the witnesses at our wedding, for example) are devout Catholics, and I have no issue with that.
Sometimes I look at people who do have faith with awe, maybe at times I even wish I had that strength that comes from believing in a god, but ultimately I'm not sure I can disengage from the scientific/intellectual process enough to buy into the concept of a superior being. I think the only superior being is Nature.
Four Dinners, well, there is a reason we have another name for alcohol, it's "spirit" and it's because a drink of spirits or alchohol makes us feel positive and the "yes factor". Often stimulating that spiritual side of our selves. Unfortunately, too many people use alcohol as the only way to relax and feel emotions or happy emotions. But when I listen to the news, I'm amazed we aren't all getting drunk all day so sad.
Diana, I agree that some art work remind us of our passion and emotions. It's a very mysterious process isn't it? I think part of the process is being openminded, and not afraid to feel things and let them work. We are taught to be too intellectual sometimes I think. Look how fussy people are about movies now. Sixty years ago, people just went to the movies, there were a lot less being produced and people were more openminded and just let go and enjoyed the story. Now it's liek a war zone when a movie opens. The news even reports how well they did in box office stats now. My grandmother wouldn't have cared how much money a movie made, she wanted to enjoy the actors...we are a cynical bunch now, for art, for faith.
Tim, I think there is even going to be scinetific proof that emotions and faith are part of our survival skills. I'm not religious person, but I believe in Jesus and Khrishna. Stagg was raised Catholic and in private school, he studied evolution...I think it's very few people who have trouble comprehending evolution and faith. They aren't at odds. It's the people who want to forcefeed one perspective over another that create this idea of conflict. I think scientists are hilarious when they talk about physics or complex astronomy concepts. I was watching nova the other day about black holes and the scientists were stumbling mumbling over words to describe a black hole...I should see if that sequence is at their web site, it was very very funny.
Red, my father was an atheist and my mother believed in ufos, ghosts, spiritual healing, reincarnation and we went to all kinds of religious ceremonies when I was growing up. I am kind of glad that my sister and I were more or less left to decide what we believed in after lots of exposure.I'm in churches and temples all the time, for volunteer work or to pray or meditate. I like to look at the decor and design of temples, and I met the Dalai Lama and begged him to give me what he had when I was a kid. So I love to meditate even though I'm just not religious. I like to joke that I have too much respect for Christ or Krishna to be religious. I seriously imagine, if Christ came back to life as his followers believe, that he would be very disgusted with the religions that popped up after he died. He believed a temple was the act of two or more people talking about the spirit. He was not materialistic.
Here is the link to several scientists talking about what a black hole is:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blackhole/explained.html
I think this is lovely because they sound so full of faith. Their ideas can't really be "seen" in the way we expect to talk about proof. Telscopes with cameras can take pictures of the stars activities around black holes, but a black hole can't really be looked at. So I think it's a wonderful metaphor for what the faithful sound like in general. We know what a black hole does, because of the reaction of material objects around it. God is kind of like that too...if you speak to someone who believes in God we can see how god affects that person only.
Red, I think your feeling that Nature is a superior being is very accurate and close to a truth.
One scientist in the PBS program about black holes described a black hole as a monster, and as much like the Grim Reaper. So interesting that evena scientist is relying on a metaphor to describe something in nature.
I think I'm with you, Candy. I'm so not a believer that even being an atheist seems pointless. I see and appreciate the beauty and miracle of the world and nature, but I can't buy into a supreme being, even if sometimes I wish I could.
You put it in words that I could never have done on my own. You spoke for me.
I really like what you said.
I am religious in my own way, and it would frazzle most religious people, and I talk about science as if it is a blessing from God, just like art and music.
I do believe that when I pass over is the time I will learn the most from God.
I know I have a good relationship with my God. I know this because my barometer on it is that I feel joy, keen interest, intrigue, and amazement with daily life. Not because I feel I donated enough money to a Perish to make me look good to God, or because I have successfully belittled enough of the lower believers in my world to raise me up the the position of "special"
I always say, I think life is simpler than all that crap. "If we do our best and we are satisfied and we can find joy and contentment, all must be good."
Thanks
candyminx, you are right, we are a cynical bunch. I remember going to the only theatre in town with my grandma - we really enjoyed the movie that was there. Then every so often a raffle was held - everyone in town went and had a wonderful time! Now, I get on the computer, check all the movies out, choose one, and if its not playing here, I just don't go. I often said the way of life here is simpler, yet I shun it - oh, I hope I don't come across to the folks here as a stuck up butt head. We are so spoiled by all of our choices, we've come to expect them as "rights."
Well, I have to get going - we have canvass board (certification of votes) - don't know what can go wrong today!
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